• icecreamtaco@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    Do NOT fall for this shit, they’ve tried it before. This makes america an easy red majority and that’s the entire point of it. We’re in this together and not going anywhere

    • jaybone@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      Fuck their red majority. Then those other states can secede too. Why should we continue to suffer for them?

      • Crikeste@lemm.ee
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        1 month ago

        Even in red states, liberal cities are getting fucked over by the electoral college. Hi from Utah lmao

        There’s so much that needs fixing. I hate that it’s the fucking conservatives doing it. Fuck.

  • Pacattack57@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    Terrible idea not only for Californians but also the rest of America. Yes California produces a lot and has a huge economy but succeeding would remove almost any big tech headquarters immediately. Silicon valley would be dead. No company is going to willingly pay export fees for every single product they make. They will all move their headquarters somewhere they can freely sell to the other 49 states and force the export fees on California

    The additional import/export taxes on top of all the retalitory tariffs that would be placed on the citizens would be crazy.

    • quixote84@midwest.social
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      1 month ago

      Not to mention that it would be utterly non-functional for all states which share water from the Colorado River to not be part of the same organizational unit. Any smaller secession than that would lead to instant water wars.

    • fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de
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      1 month ago

      The article basically says they will form a committee to investigate how to mitigate this type of problem.

      Even if it’s a terrible idea economically (which it probably is), it may still have support from an ideological perspective, and that depends just how messed up federal politics becomes in the next 3 years.

      Brexit was really only purportedly economically motivated - it was really an ideological idea.

  • jagged_circle@feddit.nl
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    1 month ago

    Lots of peoole didn’t read the article

    According to the text of the measure, the state would be required to create a 20-member state commission to study California’s viability as an independent country in 2027 and to publish a report the following year.

    If the ballot question is approved, the proposal would declare a “vote of no confidence in the United States of America”, but would not change the state’s government or its relationship with the U.S. The measure would also call for the removal of the U.S. flag from all state buildings.

  • Meursault@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    Yes, please. As a Californian who is already looking to move abroad, it would be a dream come true for my state to do it for me.

      • Meursault@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        My heart goes out to the rational minority in the red states. My advice to them is to leave while they can, however they can. This very well could be a matter of life and death.

        • HeroHelck@lemm.ee
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          1 month ago

          Your heart goes out to us, how sweet, I’ll think of your heart when me and my friends who cannot leave are rounded up and sent to camps.

          • boonhet@lemm.ee
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            1 month ago

            Look, I’ve got no dog in this fight, but in my opinion, something you need to make peace with is that the people in blue states have to watch out for themselves too, before the rot spreads too far and they find the modern day Gestapo on their own streets, killing their own people.

            And if/when they do split, try to understand them, and blame the fascists, not those trying to escape from fascism.

            Either way, if your life is threatened by fascists, I hope you’ll survive and make it out. If you don’t, I hope you’ll put up a good fight, but that’s up to you to decide, not me. I wish the best to all of you and hope that here in Europe we won’t decide to follow through on the whole right-wing swing of the pendulum.

          • Meursault@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            “Cannot leave?” My brother in Christ. If I honestly thought that my life was genuinely in danger of a violent end, should I remain where I am, I’d leave without hesitation. It costs nothing to get in your car and drive until you are across state lines RIGHT NOW, this very instant. I wouldn’t worry about selling my house, closing escrow (or trying to communicate or formalize anything with a landlord, were I renting), “getting my affairs in order”, or whatever else. I would first load up my car and then GTFO right goddamn NOW while I still draw breath. Yes, it’d be a hassle having to deal with those loose ends later, but my first priority would be my own self-preservation.

            • HeroHelck@lemm.ee
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              1 month ago

              No, I think I’ll stay and try to protect whoever I can. I’ll probably get killed, I’ve more or less made peace with that.

            • Squirrelanna@lemmynsfw.com
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              1 month ago

              Except, you know, the cost of the car and the gas and the food and shelter when you do get across state lines. All famously very cheap and affordable things.

              • Meursault@lemmy.world
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                1 month ago

                Are you really waiting to be spoon fed? I never said everything would be gravy. I said if I was honestly certain I was going to die by staying in my state, I’d fucking leave NOW without waiting for jack shit. Everyone is going to have their own support and ways of surviving, and that’s something to think about only AFTER I’m in a safe location. This is still going to be difficult, and you’ll still have to actually think for yourself. But at least you won’t be actively hunted anymore.

  • BoobaAwooga@lemmynsfw.com
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    1 month ago

    This could lead to a civil war if enough states leave with Cali. What a shitty time to be alive that it has even come to this

    • totallynotaspy@fedia.io
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      1 month ago

      Here’s to hoping it’s just saber-rattling to remind the feds how important it is to the nation. CA standards benefit way more than just CA residents; i.e. giving other states framework to adopt similar legislation (like emission standards) or even HR practices. Anecdotally, I worked for a CA based company at an east coast office; when they laid a portion of the workforce off, they paid severance to all affected even though many of us were in ‘right to work’ states.

    • Montagge@lemmy.zip
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      1 month ago

      We honestly never really finished the last one. Reconstruction got the rug pulled out from underneath it.

    • icecreamtaco@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      It’s not come to anything. They tried this a few years ago and it failed. “approved for signature gathering” doesn’t mean shit

  • Ebby@lemmy.ssba.com
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    1 month ago

    Can we coordinate with Oregon and Washington to join Canada?

    That aside, California leads the US in many ways, but we have a tendency to go too far and do really dumb things. We’re pretty good at self congratulations even when other states stare, slack-jawed at our blunders. It’s nice to have perspective.

      • Cyrus Draegur@lemm.ee
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        1 month ago

        i freaking love the idea of Cascadia becoming autonomous and independent. I’d love it if New England did that too.

        • catloaf@lemm.ee
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          1 month ago

          It’s an interesting idea, but it can’t possibly happen. The federal government has too much military infrastructure in different parts of the US, especially nuclear material. They’d never let anyone secede with it.

          • frigidaphelion@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            Yeah like what would happen to institutions like the Presidio of Monterey, the Naval Postgraduate school, Camp Pendleton, 29 Palms, etc if CA secedes?

          • PaupersSerenade@sh.itjust.works
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            1 month ago

            We also have the top two ports in the US. And if we took the PNW with us nearly all trade from Asia would pass through this theoretical new country before reaching the US.

            Edit; also there’s a lot of division between the urban and rural areas of all west coast states. It’s fun to think about, but I don’t see it happening without a major conflict

            • blazeknave@lemmy.world
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              1 month ago

              That’s an argument for leaving PNW behind. Cannon fodder so they let us go peacefully with access to the coast and manifest destiny preserved

              • peregrin5@lemm.ee
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                1 month ago

                The US can manifist my ass. If CA leaves the PNW sure as shit is leaving too. We’re far more liberal than CA.

          • Cyrus Draegur@lemm.ee
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            1 month ago

            ha, if cascadia and new england both seceeded simultaneously.

            LOOK. LOOK AT US. WE ARE THE NUCLEAR POWERS NOW.

          • k0mprssd@lemmy.zip
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            1 month ago

            well, there is a grassroots movement I’ve seen in seattle to get all nuclear armaments out of the area, so I feel if cascadia existed as an independent country there’d be at least a little bit of support to return any armaments back to the us.

  • Godric@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago
    1. Brexit was clever wordplay, every proposal since hasn’t been. Fuckin “Calexit”, do better.

    2. Yeah, you don’t get to just leave a country. Believe it or not, there was actually at least one war about that!

    3. Fuck CBS for their cancer ass website.

  • meyotch@slrpnk.net
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    1 month ago

    Sorry California, you will have to negotiate with Colorado and Arizona for your water. So basically you have to take us with you.

        • werefreeatlast@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          $1,000 to $3,000 per acre-foot of water produced, which can translate to about $2,000 to $3,500 per acre-foot for smaller-scale projects .

          • 1 acre-foot of water = 325,851 gallons

          • At $2,000 per acre-foot, the cost per gallon is about $0.0061 per gallon. Its really a range between $0.005 to $0.01 per gallon.

          Of course you can just move to a state that has water. Everyone knows you can just drink river water and lake water without any treatment at all. Plus the convenience of living near a swamp, river, lake or flood plane is superb. Otherwise you would need to carry the water somewhere else than where it is. But sure, you’re right, we shouldn’t desalinate water. That’s crazy!

          • probably2high@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            Oooh oooh, now do one for the AI GPU farms. Now, a lot of people would argue these are not a comparable use of vital resources, what with water being critical for the survival of all life, and AI the current billionaire snake oil.

            But I mean, what’s really more important than generating capital to grow the net worth of a few people by a few percents so that we can input text to generate pictures of a sick-ass panther or stories that lose the plot less than three sentences in?

            • NιƙƙιDιɱҽʂ@lemmy.world
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              1 month ago

              A single ChatGPT query requires 500ml of water, or let’s say one water bottle. Meanwhile, a single cheeseburger requires 700 gallons of water or 5299 bottles.

              The whole “AI is wasting all the water” argument is not as significant as it seems when you compare it to literally anything else we as humans do.

              Electricity consumption, on the other hand…

              • probably2high@lemmy.world
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                1 month ago

                Sorry, I thought we were talking about the amount of power desalination uses. Didn’t even know AI consumes water.

                edit: wait a minute–why the fuck does AI consume water???

                Second edit: sorry, I got caught up in the original comment talking about the cost per minute for desalination, and immediately went to assuming they were talking about energy costs.

          • Welt@lazysoci.al
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            1 month ago

            River water and lake water are potable with minimal input, whereas desalination is prohibitively expensive. Unless there’s a free energy source somehow, we’re better off drinking river water or small beer as our ancestors did.

            • werefreeatlast@lemmy.world
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              1 month ago

              Did you look at the numbers I researched for you? Those numbers give you water ready to drink. Once the water gets the salt removed, you can drink it. The desalination is basically cleaning the water. If you got a water filter at home, get some pH measuring test strips and measure the pH of the water from your tap and from the filter. You’ll find that there is a significant differences. It could be like two pH levels difference, and I think each level is one order of magnitude larger than the previous. So 100 times cleaner. Plus they get salt, which is a valuable byproduct.

              • ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works
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                1 month ago

                FYI the pH of water is not a measurement of cleanliness, it is a measurement of the acidity-alkalinity. I am not sure if you were meaning that but it seems implied by your comment.

                • werefreeatlast@lemmy.world
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                  1 month ago

                  No, dude, I mean pH. The carbon in your filter will definitely alter the pH. PH is changed molecularly, so a filter for that must be chemical, electrical or both. Activated carbon is both. Plus all the gunk already trapped in it does like to react with the opposite charge.

                  This is fairly complicated stuff, its better to just give it a try.

          • Korhaka@sopuli.xyz
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            1 month ago

            Acre-foot? Fuck me that is a cursed unit. Americans really will use anything other than the metric system

    • gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      1 month ago

      The negotiating:

      If you don’t give us water we wont send you the good you need to live

      You’ll die well before us in that waiting game, baby

      • TangledHyphae@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        Aren’t a lot of crops grown in Mexico and imported through the Arizona channels? Because produce is way cheaper in Arizona than California.

  • FundMECFS@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    1 month ago

    Honestly at this point I feel the US would do great by splitting and becoming a confederation (think EU styles autonomy).

    I think the differences are just too big to have a functioning state.

    I also understand that the push towards these movements is often done by Russian propaganda, who want to do anything to split up the US and NATO.

    • TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      I live in the EU, there are some good things but also ineffeciencies living in a confederation style government. To be fair, while consumer and labour protection in the EU has been amazing, we have to admit that there is almost no innovation in R&D going on in Europe as a whole compared to the US. Aside from strict regulations, this is because there is no single rule on how to promote R&D. Each countries have their own rules and promotions. Some states are innovators like Germany, or has no R&D at all like Ireland.

      Another weakness that the EU has is on production and defense. As you rightly pointed out, Russia wants the West to fragment, and Russia wants the EU to remain chaotic when it comes to military production and have a disunited, if not an incoherent, European army. But external influence is not even the main issue, the main issue is that many EU countries are neutral like Ireland and Austria, who are not part of NATO. I don’t know about Austria but it’s very unpopular here in Ireland to join any military alliance and there is a negative image of NATO after the Iraq War. Finland and Sweden used to be anti-NATO until the Russian invasion of Ukraine. And with the legacy of the horrors of the Second World War, military production in Europe has been weak. Even though the EU has outstripped the US in terms of giving aid to Ukraine, much of these are non-military because European arms industries are struggling to produce. The US is still the primary military donor of Ukraine.

      With different competing values and priorities, it’s challenging for the EU to remain confederate. A lot of people advocate for the EU to federalise for this reason.

      • FundMECFS@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        1 month ago

        Nothing is perfect. I mean I’ve spent most my life living in the EU too. I just think it would work better than the current US system. But that’s my personal opinion.

        • TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          Not unless you’re dealing with external threats and unreliable ally. Macron is right about having strategic autonomy and an EU army, as much as it pains me to say it because I dislike another heavily militarised Europe.

          • 0ops@lemm.ee
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            1 month ago

            As an American, I’m growing more and more scared of my country, so from that perspective I’m all for a more militarized Europe to keep the US in check if only for the next decade or two.

      • random@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        1 month ago

        I’m austrian, we literally can’t join any military organisation, because our constitution says so, also it’s very unpopular, the party that won the last election (FPÖ) is even against being in the eu, but most austrians like the eu, they don’t wanna join nato tho

        EDIT: also the somewhat libertarian party (NEOS) got over 10% of the votes if I remember correctly, so please don’t take this country serios

      • Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        Your point on R&D, while true, doesn’t consider the cost of the US R&D success. I’m not talking about money. I’m talking about it creating the oligarchs we have now. I’m talking about how all that investment doesn’t go toward healthcare or generally improving the lives of the people. Personally, I think it is a bad trade.

        • TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          Oh yeah, of course. That’s why I mentioned consumer and labour protection versus R&D. I understand if companies that make essential goods and services like pharma or vehicles might complain of regulations stifling innovations, but social media companies like Facebook or Twitter don’t provide anything essential to our daily lives and thus they don’t really require anymore innovation. Sure they provide communications, but there are many other social media and communications services out there who do not sell private data.

    • beliquititious@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      1 month ago

      If political ideologies were geography bound that would make great sense. Break it up, let the pieces govern themselves. But the problem is not everyone living in a red state is a Republican or maga fetishist and not everyone living in a blue state is a democrat or liberal.

      Cities are usually liberal, rural is usually conservative. I’d personally advocate for an expanded, air tight bill of rights with a federal government capable and willing to enforce it and all remaining decisions and rules be set by the local community, either city or county. Abolish state governments and reform them into regional managers that upkeep shared resources like roads, but with no legislative power.

    • TheObviousSolution@kbin.melroy.org
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      1 month ago

      confederation

      … odd choice for a term … Nobody in the EU would define themselves by it …

      Well, trying to use terms to justify the US confederacy post-Civil War aside, it would actually be better for a lot of states. The rest of the world can no longer trust and increasingly bipolar schizophrenic US, whereas that’s not the case for a certain number of states. You can’t overcome the deeply flawed and corrupt two party federal system, and it’s rapidly becoming even worse. If you can’t fix the problems from within, you will only be able to fix them from outside.

  • doingthestuff@lemy.lol
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    1 month ago

    Remember how the federal government treated the south when they tried to secede. And people still celebrate it, not without good reason. But they didn’t just go to war to stop it, they burned the south to the ground.

    • ℍ𝕂-𝟞𝟝@sopuli.xyz
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      1 month ago

      Well, there are two big differences.

      The ethical one, the South wanted to secede to keep their slaves, and to clarify because the term slavery has been run ragged by propaganda, they wanted to keep their forced labour/death camps where they could kill, maim, rape, buy and sell people, also children, and have them do backbreaking, crippling work to enrich themselves.

      On the other hand, California is contemplating this because the South, after losing their war, did a 200 year psyop to get a rapist and a bona-fide sieg heiling Nazi in power to force California to drop initiatives that would keep the Earth inhabitable and let their citizens live in peace.

      The pragmatic one is that while the South was what it was, California is still an economic powerhouse accounting for 20% of the US economy. If they would secede, and bring a few like-minded states with them, it’s not the least bit implausible that the South would be doing the burning again.

      All that said, the Russians and the Chinese are salivating at this idea I’m sure.

    • gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      1 month ago

      But they didn’t just go to war to stop it, they burned the south to the ground.

      Do that to CA and you’re shooting yourself in the foot as the US

      Destroying your most important ports and where more than 50% of your agriculture nationwide comes from is not a good idea

      • NιƙƙιDιɱҽʂ@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        Which is exactly why they would burn it to the ground. The federal government would never let California, let alone any state, secede peacfully. They can’t risk losing those resources and would destroy them before allowing them to be competition.

        • ubergeek@lemmy.today
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          1 month ago

          A huge reason the south lost was because they were NOT an economic powerhouse…

          Much like today.

        • Siegfried@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          Was it really? I was under the impression that they mostly were agricultural, while the north had all the light and heavy industries… (sorry, I’m not american)

          • WagyuSneakers@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            You are correct. It heavily contributed to their loss. Without international support, or the industries to leverage that support they were isolated, poor and out of manpower.

            If Union leadership was better in the beginning we would have seen them rolled much faster.

  • beliquititious@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    1 month ago

    Please don’t leave California. If you do a lot more states will follow and all the vulnerable minorities that were trapped in red states will be trapped in fascist countries.

    Plus, you know Trump will invade y’all right? All that US military stuff lying around doesn’t suddenly become property of the state. Half the Navy trains in San Diego, you think those bootlickers aren’t going to blockade your ports and cut your imports off entirely?

    If anything maybe break up into smaller states?