Do NOT fall for this shit, they’ve tried it before. This makes america an easy red majority and that’s the entire point of it. We’re in this together and not going anywhere
Lets suffer forever for ppl who hate us yay
Fuck their red majority. Then those other states can secede too. Why should we continue to suffer for them?
Even in red states, liberal cities are getting fucked over by the electoral college. Hi from Utah lmao
There’s so much that needs fixing. I hate that it’s the fucking conservatives doing it. Fuck.
“Guys, we can’t leave this facist dictatorship, because it’ll be even more facist without us.”
Terrible idea not only for Californians but also the rest of America. Yes California produces a lot and has a huge economy but succeeding would remove almost any big tech headquarters immediately. Silicon valley would be dead. No company is going to willingly pay export fees for every single product they make. They will all move their headquarters somewhere they can freely sell to the other 49 states and force the export fees on California
The additional import/export taxes on top of all the retalitory tariffs that would be placed on the citizens would be crazy.
Not to mention that it would be utterly non-functional for all states which share water from the Colorado River to not be part of the same organizational unit. Any smaller secession than that would lead to instant water wars.
A bunch of them have already been moving to Texas.
The article basically says they will form a committee to investigate how to mitigate this type of problem.
Even if it’s a terrible idea economically (which it probably is), it may still have support from an ideological perspective, and that depends just how messed up federal politics becomes in the next 3 years.
Brexit was really only purportedly economically motivated - it was really an ideological idea.
Everything you just said sounds fantastic
Lots of peoole didn’t read the article
According to the text of the measure, the state would be required to create a 20-member state commission to study California’s viability as an independent country in 2027 and to publish a report the following year.
…
If the ballot question is approved, the proposal would declare a “vote of no confidence in the United States of America”, but would not change the state’s government or its relationship with the U.S. The measure would also call for the removal of the U.S. flag from all state buildings.Well it’s a start I guess.
Yeah, I can’t think of a reason anyone would vote no on this. I’m excited to read their report.
Balkanization is beginning
Do they join Mexico?
Yes, please. As a Californian who is already looking to move abroad, it would be a dream come true for my state to do it for me.
It will be the death of many reasonable people in red states though.
My heart goes out to the rational minority in the red states. My advice to them is to leave while they can, however they can. This very well could be a matter of life and death.
Your heart goes out to us, how sweet, I’ll think of your heart when me and my friends who cannot leave are rounded up and sent to camps.
Look, I’ve got no dog in this fight, but in my opinion, something you need to make peace with is that the people in blue states have to watch out for themselves too, before the rot spreads too far and they find the modern day Gestapo on their own streets, killing their own people.
And if/when they do split, try to understand them, and blame the fascists, not those trying to escape from fascism.
Either way, if your life is threatened by fascists, I hope you’ll survive and make it out. If you don’t, I hope you’ll put up a good fight, but that’s up to you to decide, not me. I wish the best to all of you and hope that here in Europe we won’t decide to follow through on the whole right-wing swing of the pendulum.
“Cannot leave?” My brother in Christ. If I honestly thought that my life was genuinely in danger of a violent end, should I remain where I am, I’d leave without hesitation. It costs nothing to get in your car and drive until you are across state lines RIGHT NOW, this very instant. I wouldn’t worry about selling my house, closing escrow (or trying to communicate or formalize anything with a landlord, were I renting), “getting my affairs in order”, or whatever else. I would first load up my car and then GTFO right goddamn NOW while I still draw breath. Yes, it’d be a hassle having to deal with those loose ends later, but my first priority would be my own self-preservation.
No, I think I’ll stay and try to protect whoever I can. I’ll probably get killed, I’ve more or less made peace with that.
Except, you know, the cost of the car and the gas and the food and shelter when you do get across state lines. All famously very cheap and affordable things.
Are you really waiting to be spoon fed? I never said everything would be gravy. I said if I was honestly certain I was going to die by staying in my state, I’d fucking leave NOW without waiting for jack shit. Everyone is going to have their own support and ways of surviving, and that’s something to think about only AFTER I’m in a safe location. This is still going to be difficult, and you’ll still have to actually think for yourself. But at least you won’t be actively hunted anymore.
Easier said then done. I cannot afford that.
This could lead to a civil war if enough states leave with Cali. What a shitty time to be alive that it has even come to this
Here’s to hoping it’s just saber-rattling to remind the feds how important it is to the nation. CA standards benefit way more than just CA residents; i.e. giving other states framework to adopt similar legislation (like emission standards) or even HR practices. Anecdotally, I worked for a CA based company at an east coast office; when they laid a portion of the workforce off, they paid severance to all affected even though many of us were in ‘right to work’ states.
We honestly never really finished the last one. Reconstruction got the rug pulled out from underneath it.
I fear that is going to need settled more finally at some point. That tumor continues to fester.
We have a history of being soft on treason
In part because we only exist due to treason.
At least the American revolution wasn’t about keeping slavery
No, but the second was, and at this rate the third one probably will be.
No could about it. It absolutely would.
just like that one movie, what’s it called
Dude, Where’s My Car?
When Harry Met Sally?
It’s not come to anything. They tried this a few years ago and it failed. “approved for signature gathering” doesn’t mean shit
Can we coordinate with Oregon and Washington to join Canada?
That aside, California leads the US in many ways, but we have a tendency to go too far and do really dumb things. We’re pretty good at self congratulations even when other states stare, slack-jawed at our blunders. It’s nice to have perspective.
West Coat Re-Union
CASCADIA NOW!!!
Can we leave out the non coastal Jeffersonians?
i freaking love the idea of Cascadia becoming autonomous and independent. I’d love it if New England did that too.
It’s an interesting idea, but it can’t possibly happen. The federal government has too much military infrastructure in different parts of the US, especially nuclear material. They’d never let anyone secede with it.
Yeah like what would happen to institutions like the Presidio of Monterey, the Naval Postgraduate school, Camp Pendleton, 29 Palms, etc if CA secedes?
We also have the top two ports in the US. And if we took the PNW with us nearly all trade from Asia would pass through this theoretical new country before reaching the US.
Edit; also there’s a lot of division between the urban and rural areas of all west coast states. It’s fun to think about, but I don’t see it happening without a major conflict
And we would have border taxes in those goods.
AND A WALL!!!
That’s an argument for leaving PNW behind. Cannon fodder so they let us go peacefully with access to the coast and manifest destiny preserved
The US can manifist my ass. If CA leaves the PNW sure as shit is leaving too. We’re far more liberal than CA.
Can’t hear you over the sound of me cutting the rope below me mwahahaha
So did the Brits. Ghandi still got independence
ha, if cascadia and new england both seceeded simultaneously.
LOOK. LOOK AT US. WE ARE THE NUCLEAR POWERS NOW.
[Crimson 1] has entered the chat
well, there is a grassroots movement I’ve seen in seattle to get all nuclear armaments out of the area, so I feel if cascadia existed as an independent country there’d be at least a little bit of support to return any armaments back to the us.
Fuck that, I’m not getting Ukraine’d.
Can we get hawaii too for our corrupt politician’s vacation homes
Alaska can come too
Fuckin kangaroos
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Brexit was clever wordplay, every proposal since hasn’t been. Fuckin “Calexit”, do better.
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Yeah, you don’t get to just leave a country. Believe it or not, there was actually at least one war about that!
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Fuck CBS for their cancer ass website.
And Brexit as wordplay was just a rehash of the prior Grexit moment Greece had…
Caleaveornia
Adding -exit every time a region leaves some kind of alliance is going to be like adding -gate to every American political scandal
Exit = vacate… Vacation…
Californication?
Brexit was clever wordplay, every proposal since hasn’t been.
Same for Make Britain Great Again
Californexit
Californiout
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🐻New California Republic🐻
And a fascist militia like Caesars legion willing to fuck around!
please call it the “New California Republic”
As long as it doesn’t end up like Shady Sands.
Makes sense considering every day we get closer to nuclear warfare (and Trump plans on invading Canada)
I would prefer using an indigenous name for the region. But since california had so many tribes, perhaps that is impossible.
So many tribes in the New California Republic!
Wow, this comment section is wild.
Soooo many removed comments!
To anyone who saw them: without quitting them directly, what were their general sentiments?
Idk what happened here, but this article was posted in other communities and that eran_morad person was leaving antagonistic comments
Mod here: it was just derogatory slap-fighting.
No you shut up jerk ass dorkbuttface
No, YOU shut up you wiener pooping fart cloud!
Ok, now I’m curious though. Are they all adjectives before “cloud” thus describing it? OR is a “fart cloud” per se? A cloud of fart, described by the preceding adjectives?
I think maybe it’s the cloud-like essence of fart. So… Imagine it like when you’re spritzed with perfume, only, in fart-form?
Atomized eau de fart
Thanks for clarifying.
I can still read them. Just someone pretending to take the high ground against separatism and people disagreeing.
Sorry California, you will have to negotiate with Colorado and Arizona for your water. So basically you have to take us with you.
They got desalination plants.
They cost $1m/min to run
$1,000 to $3,000 per acre-foot of water produced, which can translate to about $2,000 to $3,500 per acre-foot for smaller-scale projects .
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1 acre-foot of water = 325,851 gallons
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At $2,000 per acre-foot, the cost per gallon is about $0.0061 per gallon. Its really a range between $0.005 to $0.01 per gallon.
Of course you can just move to a state that has water. Everyone knows you can just drink river water and lake water without any treatment at all. Plus the convenience of living near a swamp, river, lake or flood plane is superb. Otherwise you would need to carry the water somewhere else than where it is. But sure, you’re right, we shouldn’t desalinate water. That’s crazy!
Oooh oooh, now do one for the AI GPU farms. Now, a lot of people would argue these are not a comparable use of vital resources, what with water being critical for the survival of all life, and AI the current billionaire snake oil.
But I mean, what’s really more important than generating capital to grow the net worth of a few people by a few percents so that we can input text to generate pictures of a sick-ass panther or stories that lose the plot less than three sentences in?
A single ChatGPT query requires 500ml of water, or let’s say one water bottle. Meanwhile, a single cheeseburger requires 700 gallons of water or 5299 bottles.
The whole “AI is wasting all the water” argument is not as significant as it seems when you compare it to literally anything else we as humans do.
Electricity consumption, on the other hand…
Sorry, I thought we were talking about the amount of power desalination uses. Didn’t even know AI consumes water.
edit: wait a minute–why the fuck does AI consume water???
Second edit: sorry, I got caught up in the original comment talking about the cost per minute for desalination, and immediately went to assuming they were talking about energy costs.
Ah, my bad, lol. Im dumb. I was stuck on water consumption ig. I shouldnt wake up and Lemmy…
River water and lake water are potable with minimal input, whereas desalination is prohibitively expensive. Unless there’s a free energy source somehow, we’re better off drinking river water or small beer as our ancestors did.
Did you look at the numbers I researched for you? Those numbers give you water ready to drink. Once the water gets the salt removed, you can drink it. The desalination is basically cleaning the water. If you got a water filter at home, get some pH measuring test strips and measure the pH of the water from your tap and from the filter. You’ll find that there is a significant differences. It could be like two pH levels difference, and I think each level is one order of magnitude larger than the previous. So 100 times cleaner. Plus they get salt, which is a valuable byproduct.
FYI the pH of water is not a measurement of cleanliness, it is a measurement of the acidity-alkalinity. I am not sure if you were meaning that but it seems implied by your comment.
No, dude, I mean pH. The carbon in your filter will definitely alter the pH. PH is changed molecularly, so a filter for that must be chemical, electrical or both. Activated carbon is both. Plus all the gunk already trapped in it does like to react with the opposite charge.
This is fairly complicated stuff, its better to just give it a try.
Acre-foot? Fuck me that is a cursed unit. Americans really will use anything other than the metric system
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The negotiating:
If you don’t give us water we wont send you the good you need to live
You’ll die well before us in that waiting game, baby
Aren’t a lot of crops grown in Mexico and imported through the Arizona channels? Because produce is way cheaper in Arizona than California.
Honestly at this point I feel the US would do great by splitting and becoming a confederation (think EU styles autonomy).
I think the differences are just too big to have a functioning state.
I also understand that the push towards these movements is often done by Russian propaganda, who want to do anything to split up the US and NATO.
I live in the EU, there are some good things but also ineffeciencies living in a confederation style government. To be fair, while consumer and labour protection in the EU has been amazing, we have to admit that there is almost no innovation in R&D going on in Europe as a whole compared to the US. Aside from strict regulations, this is because there is no single rule on how to promote R&D. Each countries have their own rules and promotions. Some states are innovators like Germany, or has no R&D at all like Ireland.
Another weakness that the EU has is on production and defense. As you rightly pointed out, Russia wants the West to fragment, and Russia wants the EU to remain chaotic when it comes to military production and have a disunited, if not an incoherent, European army. But external influence is not even the main issue, the main issue is that many EU countries are neutral like Ireland and Austria, who are not part of NATO. I don’t know about Austria but it’s very unpopular here in Ireland to join any military alliance and there is a negative image of NATO after the Iraq War. Finland and Sweden used to be anti-NATO until the Russian invasion of Ukraine. And with the legacy of the horrors of the Second World War, military production in Europe has been weak. Even though the EU has outstripped the US in terms of giving aid to Ukraine, much of these are non-military because European arms industries are struggling to produce. The US is still the primary military donor of Ukraine.
With different competing values and priorities, it’s challenging for the EU to remain confederate. A lot of people advocate for the EU to federalise for this reason.
Nothing is perfect. I mean I’ve spent most my life living in the EU too. I just think it would work better than the current US system. But that’s my personal opinion.
Not unless you’re dealing with external threats and unreliable ally. Macron is right about having strategic autonomy and an EU army, as much as it pains me to say it because I dislike another heavily militarised Europe.
As an American, I’m growing more and more scared of my country, so from that perspective I’m all for a more militarized Europe to keep the US in check if only for the next decade or two.
I’m austrian, we literally can’t join any military organisation, because our constitution says so, also it’s very unpopular, the party that won the last election (FPÖ) is even against being in the eu, but most austrians like the eu, they don’t wanna join nato tho
EDIT: also the somewhat libertarian party (NEOS) got over 10% of the votes if I remember correctly, so please don’t take this country serios
Your point on R&D, while true, doesn’t consider the cost of the US R&D success. I’m not talking about money. I’m talking about it creating the oligarchs we have now. I’m talking about how all that investment doesn’t go toward healthcare or generally improving the lives of the people. Personally, I think it is a bad trade.
Oh yeah, of course. That’s why I mentioned consumer and labour protection versus R&D. I understand if companies that make essential goods and services like pharma or vehicles might complain of regulations stifling innovations, but social media companies like Facebook or Twitter don’t provide anything essential to our daily lives and thus they don’t really require anymore innovation. Sure they provide communications, but there are many other social media and communications services out there who do not sell private data.
If political ideologies were geography bound that would make great sense. Break it up, let the pieces govern themselves. But the problem is not everyone living in a red state is a Republican or maga fetishist and not everyone living in a blue state is a democrat or liberal.
Cities are usually liberal, rural is usually conservative. I’d personally advocate for an expanded, air tight bill of rights with a federal government capable and willing to enforce it and all remaining decisions and rules be set by the local community, either city or county. Abolish state governments and reform them into regional managers that upkeep shared resources like roads, but with no legislative power.
confederation
… odd choice for a term … Nobody in the EU would define themselves by it …
Well, trying to use terms to justify the US confederacy post-Civil War aside, it would actually be better for a lot of states. The rest of the world can no longer trust and increasingly bipolar schizophrenic US, whereas that’s not the case for a certain number of states. You can’t overcome the deeply flawed and corrupt two party federal system, and it’s rapidly becoming even worse. If you can’t fix the problems from within, you will only be able to fix them from outside.
But… it is a confederation. Is it not? Why wouldn’t they? Even Wikipedia mentions confederation in the first paragraph of the EU entry:
The EU has often been described as a sui generis political entity combining the characteristics of both a federation and a confederation.
Remember how the federal government treated the south when they tried to secede. And people still celebrate it, not without good reason. But they didn’t just go to war to stop it, they burned the south to the ground.
Well, there are two big differences.
The ethical one, the South wanted to secede to keep their slaves, and to clarify because the term slavery has been run ragged by propaganda, they wanted to keep their forced labour/death camps where they could kill, maim, rape, buy and sell people, also children, and have them do backbreaking, crippling work to enrich themselves.
On the other hand, California is contemplating this because the South, after losing their war, did a 200 year psyop to get a rapist and a bona-fide sieg heiling Nazi in power to force California to drop initiatives that would keep the Earth inhabitable and let their citizens live in peace.
The pragmatic one is that while the South was what it was, California is still an economic powerhouse accounting for 20% of the US economy. If they would secede, and bring a few like-minded states with them, it’s not the least bit implausible that the South would be doing the burning again.
All that said, the Russians and the Chinese are salivating at this idea I’m sure.
But they didn’t just go to war to stop it, they burned the south to the ground.
Do that to CA and you’re shooting yourself in the foot as the US
Destroying your most important ports and where more than 50% of your agriculture nationwide comes from is not a good idea
Absolutely nobody can accuse the right of being smart
CA is already burning due to mismanagement. So…
TIL wind=mismanagement
Climate change = mismanagement on the part of pretty much the whole world. So technically correct.
Question: what things were done in the 80’s to prep for wildfires? Do they do any of those things today?
Fuck off you empty headed dumb fucking sea lion sack of shit.
No.
So you don’t actually know what you’re talking about and yet you commented anyway?
I was alive in the 80s, I definitely know what I’m talking about. If you can’t answer the question though, then you obviously do not.
Which is exactly why they would burn it to the ground. The federal government would never let California, let alone any state, secede peacfully. They can’t risk losing those resources and would destroy them before allowing them to be competition.
The South was an economic powerhouse prior to the civil war. Didn’t stop the government.
A huge reason the south lost was because they were NOT an economic powerhouse…
Much like today.
Was it really? I was under the impression that they mostly were agricultural, while the north had all the light and heavy industries… (sorry, I’m not american)
You are correct. It heavily contributed to their loss. Without international support, or the industries to leverage that support they were isolated, poor and out of manpower.
If Union leadership was better in the beginning we would have seen them rolled much faster.
Please don’t leave California. If you do a lot more states will follow and all the vulnerable minorities that were trapped in red states will be trapped in fascist countries.
Plus, you know Trump will invade y’all right? All that US military stuff lying around doesn’t suddenly become property of the state. Half the Navy trains in San Diego, you think those bootlickers aren’t going to blockade your ports and cut your imports off entirely?
If anything maybe break up into smaller states?
They really don’t give a shit. So much for Solidarity, fucking liberal bastards.
I hate violence, but at this point, I see no other option. Civil war is not unthinkable and some assholes want to force it upon us.
That may be, but no sense helping them do it.
