Shut the fuck up, Snowden.You had everyone behind you until you defected to Russia. There’s no free lunch and you had a lot of info Putin would like to have. Oddly enough things really started getting bad shortly therafter.
He was being chased by the US government, and Assange proved that being in an US allied country will still get your arrested/tortured. What other options did Snowden had other than escaping to Russia?
Yeah, I thought the same thing too at the time and that’s why I wrote it off. But the problem is that knowing how Putin is and what he does, what makes you think that he would let Snowden stay there in Russia without demanding any of that information as payment?
And if Snowden was so hard up for places to go that he had to go to Russia to escape extradition to the US what position would he be in to even say no if Russia demanded it?
Think about it. If someone came to the US to escape persecution in Russia for whistleblowing, you can damn well believe the US gov’t would demand info. They brought all those Nazi rocket scientists over to work rather than sending them to prison because of the knowledge they posssesed. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
without demanding any of that information as payment?
Can Putin not read The Intercept?
Does Putin even need to?
Snowden deleted all traces of that stash once he delivered it to the reporters. He’s in Russia 'cos it’s a way for Putin to annoy the US.
Think of it from Snowdens perspective. You get to choose: either be tortured for the rest of your life, or chill in Russia and pretend Putin is a nice guy. I know what I’d pick.
He is not simply pretending Putin is a nice guy, he is clearly collaborating with russian security services. Just look at his comments on internal US politics. And he also was spreading misinformation that russia wasn’t going to invade Ukraine in Feb 2022.
He might be a hero for many, but if you’re Ukrainian (like I am), he is clearly a piece of shit.
Still it’s 100.0% USAs decisions that pushed him to Russia, it’s not like he went there immediately (2013), he was on the run and in shitty conditions for years before he finally had enough and went to Russia (2022).
USA still wanted to disappear (torture) him, not even allowing him to stay in other NATO or non-NATO countries.
A USA hero is safer in Russia, and Putin had nothing to do with setting that situation up (safe for not deporting him to USA ofc, which otc lol).
Snowden took a flight from Hong Kong to Moscow on June 23, 2013, and he’s been in Russia ever since. Don’t know who told you he went to Russia in '22, he’s been there for a long time.
Treating him as a saint; because he revealed the NSA stuff, all his subsequent actions are justified and he should not be subject to criticism.
This is an extremely common view in some part of the English speaking internet.
I reject this approach. As far as I am concerned, I hope him and his family get to experience what they the wish upon Ukrainians in the occupied territories (getting sent to to a torture camp for speaking Ukrainian).
You’re putting words in my mouth. I’m saying his actions are understandable. He has no chance of returning to the US, his only real chance at a somewhat normal life is playing into Russia’s hand.
Whether someone thinks those actions are justified is an opinion. I’m merely stating the most likely explanation for his actions.
As far as I’m concerned, his usefulness to Americans concerned about government spying ended as soon as he exposed internal NSA docs. Everything else is merely him trying to survive. Make of that what you will.
I am not putting words in your mouth. You literally state that it impossible that Snowden made a decision to support russia for more malicious reasons. The only scenario you are even willing to consider is that he is innocent by default and he was pressured, without even a drop of nuance.
I’m merely stating the most likely explanation for his actions.
How do you know this? Can you read russian? Have you ever had any type of contact with russian officials or members of the elite (in any capacity)? What do you know about russian doctrine on foreign propaganda? What other historical examples can you cite to strengthen your argument?
I totally get it, I live next to that big pain in the ass as well. Luckily, he hasn’t invaded us yet, but I feel it’s only a matter of time. And what Snowden does here certainly doesn’t help.
But he could have just done nothing and lived a very happy life. Instead, he chose to give up his happy life to uncover the NSA scandal, knowing full well that it will absolutely wreck his life.
Personally, I think he did enough for the greater good there. This isn’t his war, and if he has to post some lies to get a bit of normalcy back in his life, I can understand that. I wish it wasn’t that way, but I can understand it.
The issue is that he is supporting russian genocidal imperialism. His messaging clearly aligns with russian propaganda goals.
Is it not reasonable for me to consider him my enemy (he directly supports doing harm to me, my family and my fellow citizens)?
As far I am concerned, I hope Snowden and his family will one day be on the recieving end of russian brutality.
I don’t buy the logic of “he did one good thing, so it’s fine for him to promote russian genocidal imperialism”.
If he can’t stay consistent, he should have never got involved in the NSA issue in the first place.
He clearly enjoys the attention (just look at this post). He could have simply shut up and not worked with russian security services (the russians wouldn’t kill him, they need him alive).
Were you there? Were you privy to the circumstances? It could very well be the case that he was threatened. We don’t know, I just think it’s super sus that he started spewing pro-Russia nonsense only after his importance uncovering US govt documents was waning.
I think it’s highly likely he was pressured to make those statements.
What does me being or not being there have to do with anything?
He did have a choice to not support russian genocidal imperialism. He made a decision to support the russians even though they do terrible things (both in context of violent imperialism and spying on their own citizens).
The tone of his social media posts suggests that he rather enthusiastic about using his fame and social readership to promote an agenda. One that is explicitly aimed at harming those who oppose russian genocidal imperialism.
Is that the reply you meant to write? Why don’t you try again, but think first.
Snowden goes to Russia and there’s no way Putin is letting him stay there without demanding that information.
If the shoe is on the other foot, the US would do the exact same. They brought Nazi rocket scientists over after WW2 and had them continue their work rether than putting them in jail to rot.
Shut the fuck up, Snowden.You had everyone behind you until you defected to Russia. There’s no free lunch and you had a lot of info Putin would like to have. Oddly enough things really started getting bad shortly therafter.
Things started getting bad waaaaay earlier than that.
He was being chased by the US government, and Assange proved that being in an US allied country will still get your arrested/tortured. What other options did Snowden had other than escaping to Russia?
IMO don’t hate the player, hate the game.
Yeah, I thought the same thing too at the time and that’s why I wrote it off. But the problem is that knowing how Putin is and what he does, what makes you think that he would let Snowden stay there in Russia without demanding any of that information as payment?
And if Snowden was so hard up for places to go that he had to go to Russia to escape extradition to the US what position would he be in to even say no if Russia demanded it?
Think about it. If someone came to the US to escape persecution in Russia for whistleblowing, you can damn well believe the US gov’t would demand info. They brought all those Nazi rocket scientists over to work rather than sending them to prison because of the knowledge they posssesed. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
Can Putin not read The Intercept?
Does Putin even need to?
Snowden deleted all traces of that stash once he delivered it to the reporters. He’s in Russia 'cos it’s a way for Putin to annoy the US.
Think of it from Snowdens perspective. You get to choose: either be tortured for the rest of your life, or chill in Russia and pretend Putin is a nice guy. I know what I’d pick.
He is not simply pretending Putin is a nice guy, he is clearly collaborating with russian security services. Just look at his comments on internal US politics. And he also was spreading misinformation that russia wasn’t going to invade Ukraine in Feb 2022.
He might be a hero for many, but if you’re Ukrainian (like I am), he is clearly a piece of shit.
He did the wrong thing for the right reasons and hasn’t made many right choices since.
He really ought never have been a hero.
Still it’s 100.0% USAs decisions that pushed him to Russia, it’s not like he went there immediately (2013), he was on the run and in shitty conditions for years before he finally had enough and went to Russia (2022).
USA still wanted to disappear (torture) him, not even allowing him to stay in other NATO or non-NATO countries.
A USA hero is safer in Russia, and Putin had nothing to do with setting that situation up (safe for not deporting him to USA ofc, which otc lol).
Snowden took a flight from Hong Kong to Moscow on June 23, 2013, and he’s been in Russia ever since. Don’t know who told you he went to Russia in '22, he’s been there for a long time.
And how does this justify Snowden promoting russian genocidal imperialism in Ukraine?
He did a good thing, so now he is an untouchable saint?
I’m guessing that was a deal Russia made with him, he gets to live as long as he’s useful to Russia.
I don’t think anyone is calling him a saint. He’s a whistleblower whose best option was to defect to Russia, after a period of trying not to do that.
Treating him as a saint; because he revealed the NSA stuff, all his subsequent actions are justified and he should not be subject to criticism.
This is an extremely common view in some part of the English speaking internet.
I reject this approach. As far as I am concerned, I hope him and his family get to experience what they the wish upon Ukrainians in the occupied territories (getting sent to to a torture camp for speaking Ukrainian).
Ah yes, an eye for an eye, certainly the way to advance humanity.
Propagandists are legitimate targets in a state of war. Your moralising is shallow and insincere.
You’re putting words in my mouth. I’m saying his actions are understandable. He has no chance of returning to the US, his only real chance at a somewhat normal life is playing into Russia’s hand.
Whether someone thinks those actions are justified is an opinion. I’m merely stating the most likely explanation for his actions.
As far as I’m concerned, his usefulness to Americans concerned about government spying ended as soon as he exposed internal NSA docs. Everything else is merely him trying to survive. Make of that what you will.
I am not putting words in your mouth. You literally state that it impossible that Snowden made a decision to support russia for more malicious reasons. The only scenario you are even willing to consider is that he is innocent by default and he was pressured, without even a drop of nuance.
How do you know this? Can you read russian? Have you ever had any type of contact with russian officials or members of the elite (in any capacity)? What do you know about russian doctrine on foreign propaganda? What other historical examples can you cite to strengthen your argument?
I totally get it, I live next to that big pain in the ass as well. Luckily, he hasn’t invaded us yet, but I feel it’s only a matter of time. And what Snowden does here certainly doesn’t help.
But he could have just done nothing and lived a very happy life. Instead, he chose to give up his happy life to uncover the NSA scandal, knowing full well that it will absolutely wreck his life.
Personally, I think he did enough for the greater good there. This isn’t his war, and if he has to post some lies to get a bit of normalcy back in his life, I can understand that. I wish it wasn’t that way, but I can understand it.
The issue is that he is supporting russian genocidal imperialism. His messaging clearly aligns with russian propaganda goals.
Is it not reasonable for me to consider him my enemy (he directly supports doing harm to me, my family and my fellow citizens)?
As far I am concerned, I hope Snowden and his family will one day be on the recieving end of russian brutality.
I don’t buy the logic of “he did one good thing, so it’s fine for him to promote russian genocidal imperialism”.
If he can’t stay consistent, he should have never got involved in the NSA issue in the first place.
He clearly enjoys the attention (just look at this post). He could have simply shut up and not worked with russian security services (the russians wouldn’t kill him, they need him alive).
Well yeah, he’s in Russia. What’s he supposed to do?
He did one good thing. Now he’s in Russia, so ignore pretty much anything he days says that could in some way benefit Russia.
Why do they need him alive? Any information he has is a decade old at this point. He’s only useful to them alive while he has a platform.
No, he had a choice to keep quiet, but instead he chose to support russian genocidal imperialism. That makes him a bad person.
He is a PR win for russia, they are not going to harm him as that would undermine their interests.
Were you there? Were you privy to the circumstances? It could very well be the case that he was threatened. We don’t know, I just think it’s super sus that he started spewing pro-Russia nonsense only after his importance uncovering US govt documents was waning.
I think it’s highly likely he was pressured to make those statements.
What does me being or not being there have to do with anything?
He did have a choice to not support russian genocidal imperialism. He made a decision to support the russians even though they do terrible things (both in context of violent imperialism and spying on their own citizens).
The tone of his social media posts suggests that he rather enthusiastic about using his fame and social readership to promote an agenda. One that is explicitly aimed at harming those who oppose russian genocidal imperialism.
Russia killing him is probably the only thing worse than them having him in the eyes of the USA.
Only we get to persecute/prosecute our own, its a mindset most sovereign nations have fwiw.
You’d fit squarely as the village idiot in a 1984 sub plot.
Is that the reply you meant to write? Why don’t you try again, but think first.
Snowden goes to Russia and there’s no way Putin is letting him stay there without demanding that information.
If the shoe is on the other foot, the US would do the exact same. They brought Nazi rocket scientists over after WW2 and had them continue their work rether than putting them in jail to rot.
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