Anything that helps legitimize trump (increase overall pop vote numbers, regardless of loss) or props up green party and stein with a stated intention to get trump elected, in fact “helps trump”
Considering a vote for Dr. Jill Stein? I’m open if you have some insight I’m missing, but in my experience the green party has some exciting ideas on the surface, as lip service, but the party doesn’t put in meaningful work in interim government outside of a presidential election cycle every 4 years. So it’s a meaningless party.
You may think, “I’m in a solid red or blue state where my vote can’t influence at the national level”, but I find it hard to support Green/Stein in any capacity with how blatantly Stein has, in my opinion, been knowingly running as a spoiler candidate. The Green party has a (now publicly stated) intention to have Harris lose Michigan specifically. Below is clip from a Stein rally in Dearborn, Michigan. A surrogate for Stein is about to introduce her and spells out their intentions very clearly during remarks,
"We are not in a position to win the White House, but we do have a real opportunity to win something historic… we could deny Kamala Harris the state of Michigan. And the polls show that most likely Harris cannot win the election without Michigan.”
I would ask anyone considering a vote for Stein, in any state, to consider that truth they speak openly - When they are admitting that they can’t win, stating a goal to defeat the Harris campaign and acknowledging that Harris likely cannot win the election without Michigan, the undeniable net of that is that they are working to directly secure a second trump presidency, in my opinion.
As I see it, we just cannot have it both ways in a two party system. If the green party was a serious movement working against two party politics (and I would personally embrace and support this) they would become THE platform for ranked choice voting with a green party candidate in every meaningful on/off year election to make that issue ubiquitous with green. They speak endlessly about the flawed two party system (with a clear bias towards shitting in dems), but in the current two party system we actually have, you can’t cast a protest vote without actually casting a vote for trump in this election - And that cannot be stated more clearly than this green party spokesperson states it at this event before Stein speaks.
Here is a link to direct feed of that green party rally in Dearborn Michigan if anyone wants to see first hand to consider. It’s a longer video, but it starts at the point discussed and surrogate makes the above quoted statement within about the first minute speaking. https://youtu.be/WKSm2FQ8z60?t=5153
And trump acknowledges as much directly mentioning Stein and green party campaign by name recently,
“Cornel West — he’s one of my favorite candidates, Cornel West,” Trump said. "And I like — I like her also. Jill Stein. I like her very much. You know why? She takes 100% from [Biden]. [West] takes 100%. Kennedy’s probably 50/50, but he’s a fake.”
https://www.msnbc.com/the-reidout/reidout-blog/trump-speech-jill-stein-cornel-west-rcna158627
I’ve heard individual positions I like from West, Stein and others in the past, but in my opinion if they aren’t fighting to be the bridge to engage the flawed structure of elections in this country as third parties, these are just campaigns driven more by individual candidate ego than a motivation for systemic change.
Those are my thoughts.
If the dems lose votes to the greens it will be because of their own fucking policies including genocide. They could always change their policies. But instead they blame the public.
Preach, friend!
If you’re getting convinced by anti-green rhetoric, I don’t blame you. The greens are pretty bad.
You can always vote for the party for socialism and liberation instead. They’re running de la Cruz on a platform of Palestinian statehood and an end to arms shipments to israel.
Or don’t vote against your own interests by voting third party. Because First Past the Post means that any third party is going to act as a Spoiler, siphoning votes away from the major party that is ideologically closest to the Spoiler.
What you should do is hold your nose and vote against the literal fascist.
Then on November 10th or so (for incumbents that win) and Jan 10th or so (for the newly elected), start writing actual letters to your congressmen, Call them, email, seek them out in person at meet and greets, and push for voting reform.
Now, the temptation will be to advocate for RCV. This is the wrong move as well. RCV is inherently broken and can actually produce worse results than First Past the Post, while also having some diehard fans who promise the fucking moon. No, if you want third parties to have any chance at all of growing and possibly winning, you need to advocate for Approval or STAR.
So remember, start pushing voting reform the second we kick the fascist to the curb. Push on day one of the new session, and keep pushing. Do the work ahead of time, and maybe, we can revisit the third party issue in the future.
No.
I haven’t held my nose for a democrat for going on fourteen years and I’m not going to start now.
I’m politically active far beyond voting and have spoken face to face with several representatives. They don’t care or listen.
No amount of voting reform will fix the fundamentally unjust American political system.
I have been doing the work and will continue to do so. Voting for PSL in this election is part of that work.
If you’re reading this, don’t fall for the “oh if only we had star or ranked choice” fiddlefarting around the edges garbage. We live in under a fundamentally unjust political system and especially when both major parties are advocating in support of genocide there is no reasonable argument for performing the calculus required to declare one the lesser evil.
Walk away from omelas.
it must be really nice to be privileged enough to have this viewpoint. and all for what? so you can give yourself a nice ethical pat on the back when you help siphon from the dems, and the gop comes after women and minorities? not sure what your background is but damn dude that’s some fucked up shit
Ok I’ve heard all kinds of different reasons someone might be privileged, but doing work on the ground for years and laying the groundwork for real activism rather than whatever the hell you call this terminally online bullshit, is now what you people call privilege?
This shit is why Occupy died.
Yep, people here call me privileged too.
Um, I’m biracial, bisexual, and barely make above minimum wage. But because I disagree with some on here, I’m “privileged.” lmao
“Debt-free” “Woke-free” (Both according to your profile) You’re privileged as hell dude.
How does that make me “privileged”?
I’m not white. I’m not straight. I grew up in poverty. I’m not rich. I don’t have a high-paying job. I don’t have college education (yet). So tell me, how am I privileged?!
I’m with you, friend. Stay strong and don’t let this community bully you into changing yourself! I support you!
Well, more and more people are pushing back against those thoughts. I’m see lots of people tired of waiting and going for third party this year. And it’s awesome to see!
Literally throwing away their vote, and helping Trump.
You cannot have a third party under First Past the Post. It it literally impossible and only aids Trump. So yeah. It’s not awesome to see. It’s aggravating. Because if you advocate for third parties, you’re a stealth Trump supporter pretending to actually care.
Because if you advocate for third parties, you’re a stealth Trump supporter pretending to actually care.
Nah. If I wanted to support Trump, I’d just vote for him. But I didn’t vote for him. I voted third party. Happily! Thank you!
Mathematically you are indeed a a Trump supporter.
Claiming that not voting for Harris means supporting Trump is flawed; using that logic, anyone who isn’t voting for Trump must be supporting Harris.
Voting for a third-party candidate is a choice to support what aligns with your values, not an automatic endorsement of the opposition.
Welcome to Plurality voting, advocating for third parties is mathematically indistinguishable from advocating for Trump.
Stop it unless you want Trump to win, in which case, fuck off.
Yep! I voted for a different socialist candidate, but I really like de la Cruz. She’s awesome.
