These are the times that try men’s souls… Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered.~ Thomas Paine, American Crisis, 1776If you’ve watched or attended a town hall meeting recently, you’ve seen unfiltered outrage over Musk and DOGE. Cutting costs to improve government efficiencies is one thing, who...
I like how you seemingly blame the American leople for the failings of the government. I don’t blame Russians for the failings of the Russian government anymore than I blame my fellow citizens in America.
Are there leople that support this, sure. But it’s a minority of people, 30% is not the majority. And you should always be able to separate a shitty governments actions from the people living there. They are not one and the same.
If the United States is the shining example of democracy, then your argument loses some of its steam. Government of the people, and all …
America hasn’t been the shining example in democracy for a long time and that’s a well known fact. I’d say that means the argument hasn’t lost any steam. It never can be a good democracy with a FPtP system. Guess who can change that. The government.
The US has never been a true democracy
This percent is meaningless. People who could have voted but didn’t literally do not matter. Most American voters wanted this .
Many of those people who could’ve voted but didn’t believed the lie that their vote doesn’t matter. Does that make them stupid? Gullible? Irresponsible? Perhaps. Does it mean they understand and support what’s happening? No it doesn’t.
Our education system has been decaying for decades. We are fucking FLOODED with propaganda. Our very voting system is heavily rigged against us. Sure, we could’ve done better, and should’ve done better. But I think it’s monstrous to imply that an entire population deserves the horrors of fascism.
Does any of that make those people matter? No it doesnt. They chose to not matter by not voting. I’m respecting their choice. Not sure why you won’t.
Yeah that’s cool but asking me, a Canadian, to give a shit about this when your mess is about spill over the border is asinine.
Do you know what you guys have done? People like me used to wish the best for Americans. I wished that Americans would finally figure out universal health care and education funding so that the immense wealth of America could benefit more of its people. Now I wish that Trump moves to quickly gut social security and tank the US economy, because I know that rich people losing money in the presence of a lot of angry poor people is the only way Americans will fix this for themselves.
What a horrifying thing to say. To me this reads as if the cost of the lives of the elderly and disabled folks (not your own country’s disabled or elderly folks, of course) who rely on social security and other federal and federally funded programs is well worth what you consider to be a desirable outcome. Its not realistic and it feels bloodthirsty. Please tell me if I’m misunderstanding.
Bloodthirsty? Lol. You guys are hilarious. Those old people are getting exactly what they voted for. Asking for pity from abroad is futile and utterly pathetic. What I outlined is literally the shortest through this madness, probably with the least total damage. That you find that reality distasteful is irrelevant.
You don’t seem to care much about the incalculable damage done to (and over time the rapid expansion of) the disabled population caused by the cult of capitalism and any and all consequences of the perpetuation of said cult. I find that to be pretty horrific honestly, it affects me personally and many people I know and care about, so I take a lot of care not to perpetuate harm by taking steps to understand the ways that harm comes to people and the part I play in that. “Distasteful” is an understatement.
That damage is incoming and clutching your pearls over my comment isn’t going to change that.
Thank you. That person is either extremely misguided or arguing in bad faith.
Undo the last decade of gerrymandering and the math of the last election is subtly different.
Gerrymandering didn’t win Trump the White House. American voters did. At least learn to be mad at the right thing FFS. Gerrymandering at the federal level in the US affects the House of Representatives. The electoral college is what put Trump in the white House. But he won the popular vote too.
Um, what? Even with the rest of the sentence, these people have been manipulated so thoroughly that they hold, in my opinion, very little of the blame, to the point where it’s not at all worth assigning it to the group as a whole. It’s not productive and it doesn’t help anything. Convince individuals to make changes and take action.
Then fucking do it. 1/3rd if eligible voters made an active choice to not vote despite the choices never being more obvious. They chose not to matter. I’m just respecting their choice. Why can’t you?
I am.
Because many of them made the choice under extreme duress; because they are people who deserve at least the chance to learn and become engaged in helping others; because, as I have stated, I believe the manipulation is pervasive and powerful and generations old and I don’t fault people for falling victim to it. I understand you are frustrated. I understand it’s hard to put yourself in others’ shoes. The solution is not to exclude, but to understand what got us here and start doing the work, internally and externally, to create a better system from the ground up that will ultimately give individuals the tools to make better choices that are consistent with what they really believe, when not under threat of starvation/being cut off from or bankrupted by health care/homelessness/imprisonment/violence/etc.
Edited to add: I missed a couple things at the end of my first comment. I said “Convince individuals make better choices and take action.” I meant to convey that what I’m saying is what I recommend one does to make change, by giving others the tools, support, opportunities, and motivation to make better choices and take action, and set the example that such things are possible, quite literally being the change you want to see in the world.
The solution is entirely beyond you. There is no combination of words or actions you can take that will make commited non-voters give a shit. The only way past this now goes through an era of suffering.
It sounds to me like you haven’t actually talked to many of these people, or at least actively listened to them and tried to understand their concerns. Think this through. At what point do things get better if we don’t start changing how we do things now? What do you prefer to do, and/or suggest as a solution, if those two things are not one and the same?
Edit: also idk about you but I’ve already been in an era of suffering, I’ve been disabled and marginalized and mistreated, and so have many others. To me, treating people as complex beings with layers upon layers of motivations and ideas and beliefs and sensitivities and so on is an important part of respect and I see it as necessary if we are ever going to be able to change how things work and end the global perpetuation of harm.
I did think it through. What have you thought throu that convinced you that appealing to the better angels of their nature in just the right way is somehow the solution. There are 2 broad outcomes here. 1. The fascists just outright win. None of Trump’s incompetence matters, he just keeps plowing forward, and wins. After he does someone else takes over. 2. Things get bad enough fast enough for enough people that change is forced. In America , poor people caring about things isn’t enough. Rich people have to lose money for anything to happen AND things have to get back enough for everyone else that Americans stop sleepwalking and start paying attention in a way that Congress can’t ignore.
Among these outcomes, 2 is the hopeful one. The best case scenario. Good luck.
Okay sounds like you prefer to do nothing productive while others work on solutions. If you are correct in your assumptions, I hope you’re preparing for what you believe is coming.