- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
Summary
Trump just presided over one of the greatest diplomatic disasters in modern history, with flared tempers, raised voices, and shredded protocol.
Never before has a U.S. president bullied and berated an adversary, never mind an ally, in such a public way.
During a tense Oval Office meeting, Trump and JD Vance attacked Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, demanding he accept a peace deal with Russia or lose U.S. support.
The conversation devolved into shouting, with Trump accusing Zelenskyy of being ungrateful and “gambling with World War III.”
The meeting ended in chaos, with no agreement reached.
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That was painful to watch. Trump and Vence were pathetic and the end rambling about Biden, laptop, wtf was that? If Kamala did then same they would have taken her by force to a mental institution.
It’s kinda sad to see your big brother go down like this. We fought together for the last 100 years, and now he’s a shivering meth head.
Don’t worry, we’ll deal with Putin, and then we can deal with your problems before China tries to pull a fast one.
It would be wildly illegal for me to say what I think of, and wish for, both Trump and Vance, but I’m still gonna quietly pray to whoever is listening that it happens.
I can’t wait for Trump to die
I’m not American but wouldn’t that mean Vance becomes president? It’s tempting to think he couldn’t be any worse, but trump likes the fucker so who knows?
Maybe they can die together?
Oh shit. I just got here. I see Lemmy is dangerously woke too. Wishing someone to die is rather nasty. I do agree putting that on tv was stupid, world leaders should do all their negotiating (bickering) behind closed doors.
Man life must be so fucking easy for you to never feel threatened by politicians. It’s all just a big TV show in your eyes isn’t it?
Not addressing the rest of the comment, but ”world leaders should discuss everything behind closed doors” is a dangerously shortsighted take. You do realize their job is to represent you, right? How do you think you can verify they are doing that if you are not allowed to see and hear what’s being said?
I someone blows up a thousand people themselves they are a murderer and its socially acceptable to want them punished. If someone causes thousands of deaths in politics or business we should somehow respect it?
Hoping someone dies is the last thing left after morality is already dead.
@[email protected] said
I can’t wait for Trump to die
DANGER Will Robinson! we can’t threaten people here, not even oompaloompas.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I’m not a great shot, but at 130m firing from a prone position I would have made that shot 9 times out of 10. Heck, I had my family on the range firing a diemaco c7 (the colt Canada ar15) as part of a family appreciation day in my home guard company. They hadn’t shot more than an air rifle before, and after about three rounds each they shot killing shots at a silhuet at 200m.
How that guy could miss is beyond me. Almost like it was intentional.
Almost like it was intentional.
Yeah. Funny thing, that.
Congrats Never Genocide people posing as Progressives. We fucking warned you that exactly this was going to happen. Trump and his cult would side with Russia and throw Ukraine under the bus.
Great fucking job.
And great fucking job, Mods, for protecting those fucks in the name of civility.
We are the baddies now. And we got here because you’d rather protect Nazis from being punched in the mouth for their words and actions in the name of civility.
Doing God’s work in excusing the DNC’s unwillingness to do what it took to defeat Trump (just like, right now, they’re not doing what it takes to stop him).
For the instinctive ass-kisser it’s never the Royalty who is to blame, always the plebes.
With an “opposition” that doesn’t actually oppose and is ever less representative of the population, Project 2025 was always going to happen, sooner or later, since the trend of the last 2 decades has been ever more of far right populism, propped up by the Democrats’ ever more Rightwing policies and ever less trying to represent the broader population (and repeatedly using “we’re not them” as their entire electoral strategy).
You know what might’ve worked? Not having licked the boots of the Democrat Leadership during the last decade or two.
Now, you’re getting to enjoy the bed you made for yourself.
They really have you all wrapped around their fingers, don’t they? Your democracy is literally on fire around you and the best both ”sides” can do is bicker whose fault it is.
Thank fucking God we didn’t vote for Harris because she wouldn’t outright condemn Israel. Totally worth everything happening now (that any remotely educated and reasonable person warned about).
Better to suck Putin’s cock than to have a female president
That was crazy
What a shit show…
This is the weakness of modern democracies… You, as Putin, can just wait for 4 years and there will maybe be an idiot in power, who.ruins everything done before.
It’s the whole paradox of tolerance, on a slightly different level.
A democratic society cannot allow non-democractic elements such as Trump to use the democratic process. By it’s very nature. People will then say “but it’s democracy, I should be able to choose whatever I want”, yes, except choosing against democracy. Which is by definition not a choice that can be available.
That was harder to watch than Isis beheadings
I’m glad we get to see this shameful display. I wouldn’t talk lto a dog like that, much less the democratically elected leader of another sovereign nation that’s an ally. The US used to be a beacon of freedom and diplomacy, but clearly we shouldn’t expect that from the current regime.
Europe will keep supporting Ukraine regardless, but it really is in the US’ interests to stay involved in this conflict. It’s disconcerting that Trump can’t seem to grasp that basic fact.
I hope that the rest of the world is taking notes and realizing that they cannot rely on the current US government to uphold its side of any prior agreements (or even the basic tenets of etiquette in civil discourse).
I hope that every country that does most of its trade with the US is quietly looking for new markets.
I hope that Republican isolationism actually comes to pass so that the entire population of the US can feel exactly how painful it will be to cut themselves off from the rest of the world. And then in two years, I hope enough people will get off their asses and vote against the people who let it happen.
It also feels like it was all planned. From his time on TV Trump knows a lot about creating drama. First we have “he’s a dictator”, everyone expects Trump to be against Ukraine. Then in episode 2 there’s a twist - France and Britain show up and Trump is very amenable to give people hope again, and finally it all blows up in a dramatic clash. Trump even tells us “that’s why I let it go on so long… its going to make great television”.
The whole thing was about telling the story that Trump is the strong peace seeking negotiator and it all fell through because zelensky won’t be reasonable and is trying to take advantage of the US who he doesn’t respect.
It’s also just so weak.
Not that macho’ism should be a major point or even desirable trait for a world leader IMO, but so many people like Trump because he’s allegedly strong. Yet when I watch the above clip I just keep thinking “he’s so weak and soft and overly sensitive to essentially everything.” Like how can you want a tough leader, then watch that exchange and think “Trump is tough.” What?
That’s my main takeaway. If you want to appear stronk leedr, this isn’t it. This just makes you seem desperate because your russian money givers are getting impatient.
If the Europe had any sense of self respect the US embassies would be closing everywhere right now just like the russian ones.
Trump sucks, I hope Ukraine wins,and I hope Putin is judged by history for his aggression and the general incompetence of his government.
But very few Russian embassies were ever closed, and rightly so. Some were downsized and suspected spies were given the boot. If Europe wants to do that with Americans, yeah smart.
Outright closing embassies would be a massive misstep, completely (edit: unwarranted, I mean) warranted, and miss the entire point of diplomacy.
Have you watched the same video as I did? That’s American diplomacy, why would we need that?
Agreed. Removing the option to talk leads to violence.
Zelenskyj had every right to question Vance the way he did, but it wasn’t the right time to do so if he wanted their respect.
It was disrespectful. It hurts me to concede this point. I didn’t want it to be true but I had to see the cause for the fight breaking out, and I hate to admit that it was Zelenskyj who put Vance on the spot in front of everyone like he was on trial, and put him to shame. That’s not something you want to do when you’re trying to make a deal for your people.
Zelenskyj has too much of a backbone, unfortunately. Respect to him, for standing up against bullshit, but it was definitely a case of picking your battles.
OTOH, it’s possible he’s consciously splitting with the US in hopes of getting the EU with him. Long term, could be smart.
Wtf? Are you that cooked you just can’t swallow your US pride even when your leaders are this foul? Uncanny. Where is the line for you? What do you need before you are willing to write off something USA?
😆👌
Not sure if you fully comprehended what I said.
- I said Zelenskyj is in the right. He is fully in the right to question Vance with valid questions. But I’m also saying that if you want to negotiate with monsters, you might not want to embarrass and anger them in front of their own people, live on TV. 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️ Feels like politics 101.
- I’m not American… Not even on the same continent. 😆 Nice assumption.
Good job America! Proud of y’all for once again standing up for your values of oppression and greed.
So true.
The democrats would rather have trump than Bernie.
Yeah, even in this very comments section we have arse-lickers still blaming the plebes for not having supported a DNC Royalty who didn’t even tried to listen to or represent them.
These people have spent the last decades unwaveringly supporting the hard right within the Democratic Party, who couldn’t give a rat’s arse about anybody not in their social circle, and now, to avoid accepting the blame for having supported those who corrupted their party from the inside, are blaming the poor sods on the outside who between two parties entirely dominated by the wealthy elites, never had a real choice.
“On live TV”
literally no video shown or linked
Its a political stech in a newspaper, not a link to a video. You can either go to the guardian’s front page to see the it or type anything even slightly relatred to it into a search engine to see the video.
Supposedly it’s live, so it would’ve been over. Also, TVs famously have no links
I just saw an ad for G20, a fiction where some terrorists kidnap all the leaders of the G20 at the meeting. But don’t worry, the US president frees herself, and she’s going full Liam Neeson to free everyone and get revenge.
LOL completely unbelievable
What would instead happen with the US president that is in charge now: if you free me I will help you with all your requests and I will personally execute the hostages
I’ve heard shows like Madam Secretary and The West Wing be considered, akin to Star Trek, “competence porn.”
The idea, the fantasy, that the people making the critical decisions that affect so many people are consulting experts, weighing heavy costs, consulting the law, and are kept up at night because they care so deeply for making the best call they can so they don’t let down all those who depend on them. These characters have been role models for leadership for generations at this point.
And here we are, in a complete fever dream of a failed state: With a convicted felon and failed reality show TV personality, his foreign billionaire handler, and a weak spineless, loud little dweeb we all forgot was even vice… burning the last vestiges of peace and goodwill all around themselves, handing us and our allies over in a competition with other fascists to be the world’s worst enemies, screaming at world leaders, destroying the environment out of spite, and heck, shilling beans from the oval office. Because why not.
Who’s close enough to this to do something about it? Where are the competent ones who will regain control of the bridge from these terrorists? Yeah, where’s our “G20 president”?
Well, I just remembered, we need to support people like Governor Janet Mills of Maine , and empower anyone any everyone who will stand up against this bullying.
I really like The West Wing. I’m currently going through it again.
It was always a hopeful show, but these days even the ‘bad guys’ in it start to look pretty appealing compared to what’s actually in the White House. At least the ones on the West Wing had fairly mundane motives and could be worked with to some extent.
If they made a current show inspired the actual White House, it would look more like Idiocracy than competency porn…
Fucking Idiocracy is competence porn at this point, Camacho was an idiot but damn was he actually really competent if you think about the events of the movie.
Absolutely. Something about that movie’s premise was that the ignorance and takeover of corporate influence was the villain, but the leaders were just ignorant and rowdy, not actively acting out of hatred and malice towards… Everyone.
You’re right, been awhile since I’ve seen it but Camacho was being a tank-driving grenade-launching nut just to look cool. He didn’t aspire to invade neighbors or anything that we’re shown.
Once they could be taught, they could be reasoned with, even with their inflated egos, and they moved shockingly quickly to correct things because they wanted to be good, well-liked leaders, they just didn’t know how. (Oh, and limited film runtime lol)
You know, it’s known for it’s cynical humor but at its heart, I’d almost say it has a “noble dark” (as opposed to “grimdark”) tone: The world sucks, but the characters are shown to have a desire to do good at their core, once they see past the bullshit! :)
“Democracy dies on live TV” - wow that headline hits hard.
First time i read it I thought it says “Democracy dies on live TV”… not far from it i guess…
Democracy is just one word and a set of ideas connected to it.
Other than democracy there are meekness, dignity, wisdom and rationality, by the way, none of these contradicts any other, and a few even more important - faith and bravery and choice.
So, I see nothing wrong with democracy dying in any kind of public setting when the 7 things I’ve listed stop being even tolerated.
“US chances at…”
Need to be added to the start. As if other countries aren’t somehow capable is such an USamericanism.
It says Diplomacy, but both are fitting actually
Ah cheers, misread that!
