And that supports your argument how exactly? Oh no! Humans are flawed and can make weird decisions after massive trauma? Not to be mention 1 man is not all sailors. Quickly grasp at the first excuse to validate your slaughter. As red Emma said at the time, “Trotsky protests too much…”
To anyone still reading, this sort of truth stretching to defend the indefensible is why I don’t trust campists
Links to Wikipedia Wikipedia talks about an anarcho syndicalist. Whatever man
Edit : lol you reported me
Soliciting donations and using fucking bitcoin of all things is mind blowing to me. How are you gonna get your money out without everyone tracing you?
Yes yes we know the lies told about it. Again, people can go and read on their own about the slaughter of anarchists that happened there.
I didn’t call Marxists fascists. I called Lenin’s and Stalin’s regime red fash.
And I don’t act vague, I just don’t have the patience to reopen 100 old debates
Your constant insistence that I’m incoherent is acerbic and I have no patience for it.
For anyone else still reading, I suggest you go and read anarchist accounts of why they feel they’re constantly betrayed by MLs in russia and kronstadt, Ukraine, Spain and petty much everywhere they made the mistake to ally with the mls for the sake of the revolution. Sorry but I don’t have the time to counter revisionism in lemmy
If you think the anarchists of Spain weren’t betrayed and undermined by the Republicans and Stalinists, I don’t know what to tell you. Tell yourself what you want but anarchists won’t forget next time.
All labor where the workers do not directly and democratically control their output is slavery. The party bureaucracy setting wages, output, managers and destroying the unions and the soviets put exactly wage slavery into practice.
What caused the collapse of theater Soviet union was the internal contradictions of an inherently flawed capitalist system. If the workers had freedom they would have never given it up. But the revolution was betrayed from the start and they never got that freedom.
And yes, leninist/stalinist form of authoritarianism is akin to fascism. It’s why anarchists call them red fash. Is that also a new term for you? Look it up someday.
Getting exploited is certainly not socialistic. The fact that things improved compared to feudalism doesn’t mean it was socialist, every capitalist state improved over feudalism. They were just worse than others because they were red fascists who ruled with an iron first until they fucked it up so much it collapsed under its own internal contradictions. Like fascists tend to do.
Saying that most people were working for a wage isn’t “fringe” it’s the goddamn truth. The whip doesn’t disappear because it’s the people’s whip. It’s in fact why “aes” is laughable as a goal. “sure let’s just do a revolution so I can work for a boss again, because this time it’s the peoples boss” said no one ever.
Anarchists have always been betrayed by MLs in revolutionary periods. Always. Cooperating by doing some anarchist direct action in modern capitalist societies isn’t changing that.
Cuba, Soviet union, China they all have wage slavery. Ergo they’re not socialist. They’re just state capitalist, where the state apparatus is the capitalist and the party is the bourgeoisie. Which is why all these nations just keep doing capitalist shit. I assure you, the concept of state Capitalism is not fringe among anarchists so I would suggest you talk to some anarchists who don’t accept “aes” now and then.
Also, I’m not here to have a debate with you. You just jumped into my replies. I’m under no obligation to argue with you rigorously. Hell I’m just typing on my phone here.
Also I never argued that anarchists can’t be influenced by ml theory. That is however much different than wholly accepting talking points about “aes” which is anathema to anarchists. However I would argue that every time anarchists collaborated with MLs under the banner of" left unity", they got betrayed. That’s a lesson that most of us don’t forget.
Finally, I speak only for myself and from my experience with a lot of anarchists, and MLs, and trots, and hardcore stalinists. The idea that anarchists collaborate with ml irl, is fucking laughable and would get you laughed out of any anarchist squat or communist party meeting in Greece. Hexbear is the first time I’ve seen this and it only “works” because anarchists who are consistent with the larger anarchist theory are labeled “liberals” and “wreckers” and summarily banned.
Note I haven’t written this guide myself
Sorry mate but I’m under no illusions on what those “public” economies truly are. There’s a nothing “public” about it anymore than state owned services in capitalisti nations are “public”. When it’s all based on the capitalist mode of production, they’re not socialist. They’re at best social democracies which is why they are all just continuing the same capitalist degeneration.
About Lenin, I am saying that his analysis of capitalist exploitation between nations isn’t anything noteworthy for anti-capitalist criticism. For certain it doesn’t prove that “aes” states don’t engage in exactly the same imperialism just because they call themselves by a different name. Hierarchies are always going to fight other hierarchies to come out on top. It’s ultimately why even ml “aes” states couldn’t truly work together without friction.
Spare me the chauvinism accusations. I’m not the trying to co-opt movements with my ideology from afar here.
And yes, me and most anarchists think there’s something wrong with anarchists who accept ml talking points and collaborate with them after all the historical lessons to the fonttwry. It’s no wonder that most such anarchists eventually reject anarchism and become MLs as well.
I’m don’t really care to keep belaboring this point though. I wasn’t even talking to you. I just wanted to point out that most anarchists outside of hexbear don’t see much anarchist potential there. What we see is people who surround themselves in authoritarian rhetoric due to all the other benefits the space has and eventually get converted to pure authleft, or campism. I personally haven’t witnessed even a single self-assigned anarchist there, except the one person who incidentally was the most toxic of all I encountered.
Abouts campism, I don’t “refuse go look at the internal logic”. That’s just sophistry. I just call a spade, a spade.
think it’s pretty clear that one can accept AES as clear improvements for the conditions of the Working Class as compared to Capitalism,
That’s the thing. Anarchists don’t see “aes” as separate from Capitalism. They are capitalism. Just with a red coat off paint. I can accept that their style of state Capitalism may be an improvement in some areas while being a problem in others, much like Nordic social democracies are different from the unrestrained Capitalism of the USA. But none of them is something anarchists truly support. And therefore again, a paradox in your argument.
Further, Lenin’s analysis of Imperialism as a special phase in Capitalist development is 100% compatible with Anarchism
Seeing that capitalist nations exploit the poorer ones doesn’t require Lenin anyway. This isn’t what makes one accept “aes” or the campist mindframre
We see this alignment of Anarchists globally against Imperialism in societies like the EZLN, which takes much inspiration from Marxism-Leninism with their own characteristics. Those in the Global South are intimately familiar with the mechanisms by which they are exploited and oppressed by the US and Western Europe especially, which is why the Anarchists in the Global South tend to align more with Marxists than Capitalists.
Anarchists always fall in the anti capitalistic camp but that’s where the alignment is ends. There’s no evidence that those in the “global south” are approaching MLs any different than I do.
As for Campism, my point is more that you group Anarchists that disagree with you up with Marxists if they recognize the impacts of Western Imperialism and reduce it to Campism
No I just point that anarchists who hang out in hexbear or which regurgitate ml talking points about being two sides, are just campist. I don’t know call critics of Capitalism campsits. I only call campist, campists.
The biggest difference is that Anarchists on Hexbear almost always agree with Lenin’s analysis of modern Capitalism in Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism, and further recognize AES states as far better than their Capitalist peers. They often have similar takes as MLs but fundamentally disagree with how to structure revolution, and society post-revolution.
Yes, I am aware that this is what you believe. However I would argue one can’t accept “AES” but disagree on “how to structure revolution, and society post-revolution.” because what Anarchists want look nothing like those “AES” states, and therefore the paradox.
It’s the opposite, those Anarchists that support AES over Capitalism and accept Imperialism as a special stage of Monopoly Capitalism are in the majority.
Utter nonsense. Anarchists which accept Leninist analysis are extraordinarily few.
I think that your statement is, ironically, a campist one that seeks to undermine the legitimacy of their takes while supporting your own.
That’s not what campism means.
There’s some peeps who claim they’re anarchist on hexbear, but end up parroting the same ML-talking points about AES and often have similar toxic behaviour towards those who disagree with the groupthink. If any are there, they’re basically campists, like the rest. For example of such campist anarchist takes, you can take a look at abolitionmedia. But ultimately these anarchists are pretty isolated from the larger anarchist movement.
I suspect this is meant to go to your browser
7% seems very low. In my local group I’d be surprised if it’s less than 20% :D 
The admin Autism.Place just went Mia.
2 points.
I would be very surprised if that’s actually true for everyone. Sounds like an isolated problem for that user. L.W. is hosted in some monstrous HW
Oh I know they’re all amoral hypocrites. I was more referring to the fact that they can spout such blatant hypocritical nonsense and the rest of the world just goes along with it.
Keep protesting too much as well. No anarchists believes this garbage but we remember and we learned…