• Ultraviolet@lemmy.world
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    4 days ago

    The set of all possible universes does not include impossible universes. If you assume all possible universes exist, you’ve already eliminated universes that are the only universe as impossible.

  • Uriel238 [all pronouns]@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    4 days ago

    Aargh! Okay, I’m going to fix this and the fine tuned universe argument all at once.

    Nature does not care about your silly numbers and hypotheses. All of our scientific mechanics are models of the observed universe. The ones we call theories are just models good enough to be usefully predictive as to forecast outcomes, allowing us to safely land airplanes, build bridges, make safe pharmaceuticals (or super addictive ones, if we want), split atoms safely to produce power (or unsafely to level cities) and so on.

    We care about the math and the numbers because they give us results that are consistent with nature. But nature is doing what it’s doing because it’s behaving as a giant causal engine (ever-smaller forces that drive observable phenomena, at least until we get to Planck scale). So when it comes to the fine tuned hypothesis, to quote a Texas physicist whose name I can’t remember These numbers ain’t for fiddlin’

    If there are any storm gods at all, anywhere in the world, to the last, they are content to allow lightning to behave strictly according to static-electricity electrodynamics. And ball lightning happens whether or not we have a model that explains it. (Presently, we don’t.)

    If one or more of the many-worlds hypotheses are true, no given universe cares what its science-savvy inhabitants have determined and whether their mathematical models allow for models that are factual. Facts don’t care about your feelings. Facts don’t care about your science either. It’s more that the science does is best to describe what’s going on in the facts.

    Irreducible complexity is solved.

    PS: This also stabilizes the cosmic horror scenario of Azathoth’s dream, that Azathoth gibbers in the center of the universe dreaming its whole, and each and every one of us is a mere figment, who will vanish to oblivion when eventually he awakes: From what we can observe Azathoth has been dreaming consistently for thirteen billion years, and doesn’t seem to be in a hurry to wake up, and his dream is profoundly consistent so that the mathematics we use to send probes from planet to planet, eventually into the outer solar system always works. Azathoth has our back!

      • Uriel238 [all pronouns]@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        4 days ago

        Azathoth just happens to be really useful to make idealism and the simulation hypothesis plausible. Either way, the mechanics that govern the universe are profoundly consistent and are not as fragile as our own dreams / our own simple, buggy simulations. So yeah.

  • samus12345@lemm.ee
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    4 days ago

    The multiverse either exists or it doesn’t. Individual universes have no influence over that.

  • itslilith@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    4 days ago

    Don’t you love it when people say random, illogical bullshit that sounds vaguely sciency and pretends to be deep?

  • rmuk@feddit.uk
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    4 days ago

    “If there is an infinite number of buckets, there must be a bucket where the other buckets don’t exist.”

  • BananaTrifleViolin@lemmy.world
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    5 days ago

    Infinite doesn’t mean everything. Infinite can include a repeating pattern, even a huge repeating pattern which seems random at first. Not everything you could possibly imagine would necessarily have to exist in the multiverse.

    And even if infinite and perfectly random, some things may just not be feasible and just not exist.

    • Firipu@startrek.website
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      5 days ago

      In an infinite list of letters, every single book ever written, every word ever spoken (and to be written/spoken) should be present no?

      I guess the only caveat is that in an infinite universe certain physical laws could be universal (which would prevent eg any universe to break the speed of light)? But some version of me having hair past my 30s should certainly exist no?

      Or am I getting this completely wrong?

      • milicent_bystandr@lemm.ee
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        4 days ago

        Or am I getting this completely wrong?

        I mean, the whole premise is getting this completely wrong. The actual physics idea behind multiple universes is that every possibility in specific quantum events happens, each one being in a separate, ‘parallel’, universe where everything else in the universe is exactly the same. All the laws of physics stay the same, just the results of all the cumulative random possibilities are different.

        This is also not the only explanation of that strange phenomenon in quantum mechanics.

      • MajorSauce@sh.itjust.works
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        5 days ago

        This infinite list of letters could be "any random combination of letters EXCEPT when that makes the word “banana”. A subset of an infinite set can still be infinite.

        Infinite != infinite randomness

        • Firipu@startrek.website
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          4 days ago

          Ah, fair enough. So that’s similar to “infinite universes of infinite possibilities, except light can never go faster than 300.000 km/sec”?

  • gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de
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    4 days ago

    There’s a parallel universe in which the fundamental laws of physics are different: the weight of an electron, the gravitational constant, how many fundamental particles there are, the cosmological constant, …

  • VoterFrog@lemmy.world
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    4 days ago

    Nah but here’s the real staggering part. It should be far easier for universes to form locally conscious beings than it is to form all the pieces necessary to naturally evolve conscious beings. These would mostly be very short-lived arrangements of energy with no hope of surviving but certain arrangements would even have false memories, making them believe that they have existed far longer than they actually have.

    They may even have false memories of living on earth.

    They may even have false memories of your exact life.

    And they would be, by far, more common than any form of actual sustainable life. It is vastly more likely that you have experienced this post as a false memory created inside one of these short-lived consciousnesses than for any of this to be real.

    • kerrigan778@lemmy.world
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      4 days ago

      No, it’s not. This is only true if every arrangement of matter is equally likely to come into being randomly. The multiverse is not an infinite non repeating randomized collection. Every possibility is not necessarily present and every possibility is certainly not equally likely. Life emerging evolutionarily through relatively very simple processes in areas where the right amount of usable energy exists and the right amount of certain elements exist in the right forms is relatively very likely and possible. A random assortment of cold stellar gasses or just pure energy self assembling through quantum bullshit into a false consciousness with complex logic and memories and the ability to experiment and test its reality in logical ways is pie in the sky nonsense in likeliness. Airplanes appearing out of nothing and people falling through the Earth because “the atoms just happened to arrange themselves just right” are neat things to argue are technically not impossible in our current predictive mathematical models of the universe. They are not things we have any real evidence are possible and real phenomena on a macro scale.

  • Zerush@lemmy.ml
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    4 days ago

    Lol, good joke but wrong, even existing an infinite number of Universe, to be stables they need a infinite number of physical conditions, if not they can’t exist. A multiverse, even if there are formong an infinite number of universes, most of them are destroyed in the same moment when are not present this conditions, even so it can exist an infinite number of survivor universes with the correct conditions (∞/n = ∞), paradox conditions are not among these (apart of the infinite itself, used in physics)

    • shastaxc@lemm.ee
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      4 days ago

      Multiverse theory does not necessarily mean infinite universes to cover all possibilities, just multiple universes.

      • Kyuuketsuki@lemmy.ml
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        4 days ago

        It’s a common trend for people that don’t understand that infinite possibilities do not mean every possibility.

        The way I usually explain this to people is that the quantity of even number is also infinite, but that doesn’t mean you’ll ever find a value of three in that infinite range.

        • meowMix2525@lemm.ee
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          4 days ago

          Nah there’s definitely different universes/timelines in star trek. The series just have the one main timeline they follow.

          spoiler

          In TNG theres the dark Romulan war timeline in which Yar doesn’t die in that confrontation with the evil tar pit guy and goes on to prevent war with the Romulans, switching us back to the main timeline where the war doesn’t happen but Yar’s descendant is a Romulan warlord.

          I think this is the same timeline in DS9 where evil Kira and all of them exist. It’s mentioned in DS9 that the Kirk in this timeline also switched places with the Kirk in the main timeline at some point but I didn’t watch TOS so I cannot confirm.

          The final season of Lower Decks was also a huge step into multiverse theory. So perhaps there is more to come.

          • _stranger_@lemmy.world
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            4 days ago

            Yeah! Until lower decks there was only ever the “mirror universe” (and a few alternate timeline shenanigans that were never clearly a different universe, just a different ‘time line’.)

            I want lower decks back 😞

  • FiskFisk33@startrek.website
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    4 days ago

    this is stupid. The existence of an infinite number of universes does not at all imply they must represent infinite variability.